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Thursday, October 25, 2007
The galaxy we call the Milky Way
What was the native language of the person who made this sign?
Aside from the word choice, I don't think many adults whose first language is English and who were literate from a young age make their lowercase "d" like that.
I am pretty sure that Brits say "milky" instead of the American/Yiddish "milchig" or "melthik" as someone in my family says, or the pure English "dairy." ("Milchig" is the normal way to say it, though.)
It might not be Brits but South Africans or Australians who say "milky." I don't remember if they "meaty" also.
Maybe "normal" was a poor word choice back there. I meant that I think that "milchig" is the proper way to say it in Yiddish, as in "milchig" and "fleishig."
It sort of bugs me when people in the US label kitchen things "milchig" and "fleishig" instead of "dairy" and "meat." I once had roommates who wrote "M" on dairy things (for "milchig") and I was never 100% sure if "M" was for "meat" or "milchig."
Using other Yiddish words like "shul" or "bentch" doesn't bother me nearly as much, nor, I guess, do "milchig" and "fleishig" in conversation. I guess the kitchen marking issue is more because you might have someone using your kitchen who doesn't know those Yiddish words, and if you weren't there to explain it, they might be up a metaphorical creek.
There are several reasons the writer was not a native Hebrew speaker: 1. ב"ד is not a commonly used abbreviation in Israeli Hebrew. One might write ב"ה (beezrat hashem) or בס"ד (besi'ata dishmaya). never ב"ד (which is beit din). 2. The handwriting is that of a foreigner. 3. The hebrew stinks, and is a perfunctory afterthought to the English which carries much more information.
Based on sentence structure/ grammar issues I've seen from my Russian-native-speaker students, I would say a native speaker of Russian wrote the sign-- which might be pretty likely there. However, I have no idea what types of errors native Russian speakers usually make in Hebrew.
Aside from the word choice, I don't think many adults whose first language is English and who were literate from a young age make their lowercase "d" like that.
ReplyDeleteIt's a partial derivative!
ReplyDeleteBut the Hebrew word choice is awkward too - it says "Please put in food from cafeteria", and there's a missing "only" that makes a huge difference.
I am pretty sure that Brits say "milky" instead of the American/Yiddish "milchig" or "melthik" as someone in my family says, or the pure English "dairy." ("Milchig" is the normal way to say it, though.)
ReplyDeleteIt might not be Brits but South Africans or Australians who say "milky." I don't remember if they "meaty" also.
Maybe "normal" was a poor word choice back there. I meant that I think that "milchig" is the proper way to say it in Yiddish, as in "milchig" and "fleishig."
ReplyDeleteIt sort of bugs me when people in the US label kitchen things "milchig" and "fleishig" instead of "dairy" and "meat." I once had roommates who wrote "M" on dairy things (for "milchig") and I was never 100% sure if "M" was for "meat" or "milchig."
Using other Yiddish words like "shul" or "bentch" doesn't bother me nearly as much, nor, I guess, do "milchig" and "fleishig" in conversation. I guess the kitchen marking issue is more because you might have someone using your kitchen who doesn't know those Yiddish words, and if you weren't there to explain it, they might be up a metaphorical creek.
The "M" ambiguity could potentially come up even without Yiddish: meat and milk.
ReplyDeletebrits use 'milky' and 'meaty' instead of 'dairy' and 'meat' or 'milechig' and 'fleischig'.
ReplyDeletealso, there's a nasty comma splice right in the middle there.
I've heard/read "milky" in place of "milchig" a number of times, including from US English speakers.ht
ReplyDeleteThere are several reasons the writer was not a native Hebrew speaker:
ReplyDelete1. ב"ד is not a commonly used abbreviation in Israeli Hebrew. One might write ב"ה (beezrat hashem) or בס"ד (besi'ata dishmaya). never ב"ד (which is beit din).
2. The handwriting is that of a foreigner.
3. The hebrew stinks, and is a perfunctory afterthought to the English which carries much more information.
Based on sentence structure/ grammar issues I've seen from my Russian-native-speaker students, I would say a native speaker of Russian wrote the sign-- which might be pretty likely there. However, I have no idea what types of errors native Russian speakers usually make in Hebrew.
ReplyDeleteInteresting. The definite article before "cafeteria" is missing in both English and Hebrew.
ReplyDeleteThe missing definite article makes it almost, well, definite, doesn't it?
ReplyDeleteNative speaker of a language with no word for "the." Such as Russian.
(It has been a very long time since college Russian, but there's no definite article in Russian, correct?)
That "d" is DEFINITELY indicative of Russian handwriting.
ReplyDelete