tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12610610.post284915798721148798..comments2023-12-27T03:40:39.548-05:00Comments on Mah Rabu מה רבו: What's next?BZhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18242965196421853025noreply@blogger.comBlogger22125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12610610.post-1068414851281748532007-08-03T11:09:00.000-04:002007-08-03T11:09:00.000-04:00As usual, you are contributing something useful, t...As usual, you are contributing something useful, thoughtful, radical, and respectful at the same time! For what it's worth, at the next life-transition for me, I'll be looking for something similar (having more or less finished child-raising), but where I go will be basically entirely job-driven (since it's an academic job, that will probably mean a place with some reasonable population of Jews, of course). A place where people in their 20s and 30s will continue to do some organizational heavy-lifting for the benefit of people like me is of course great, and I hope I find it. (And of course a few experienced parents can enrich a community of new parents -- though the general tendency of new parents is to behave as if having children (like sex) was invented right around the time they started.)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12610610.post-39601802340980670062007-08-02T20:00:00.000-04:002007-08-02T20:00:00.000-04:00Having experienced KZ (or some other independent h...Having experienced KZ (or some other independent havurah)is sufficient for anyone who wants to be able to start one's own Havurah. One couple I know advertised in a local newspaper (small city in CA about 200K) for anone wanting to participate in a group Pesah Seder and 50 plus people showed up to 'join'. A subset of them become suddenly a Havurah that kept meeting. My wife and I started more than four indy's over time to provide the environment we were not getting from the establishment. One was for study, another was for Kab Shab and still another was an occasional Shabbas Minyan all of which nourished us as we learned what we could do with them. So if you don't all land together someplace you can all still help start your own in many places which will benefit all of us. And please help make them intergenerational. All the different voices of the generations have interesting takes and multiple points of view.<BR/>Kellykellyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11067079526256967127noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12610610.post-88500096830060014022007-07-14T20:12:00.000-04:002007-07-14T20:12:00.000-04:00i dont think we are going to see folks move en mas...i dont think we are going to see folks move en mass to a particular place. Nor do I see things at the scale of KZ, TLS, Kavod happening. I envisions a small havurah in my Jewish future. 10-15 families. That's 20 - 35 adults and who knows how many kids. If we get together every other week, for prayer, and perhaps rotate though facilitating some kind of multi-age school, dayenu.Chorus of Apeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12408481444277244082noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12610610.post-45759641683576184342007-07-07T22:41:00.000-04:002007-07-07T22:41:00.000-04:00Thanks to all who have suggested locations, and it...Thanks to all who have suggested locations, and it's great to hear about places with affordable housing and strong public schools. But I should note that the existence of synagogue in a location isn't necessarily (in itself) a plus in my eyes. NYC has hundreds of synagogues, and I don't go to any of them. As I see it, synagogues are useful iff 1) they have a population who would be up for starting an independent community, 2) they are open to radical transformation (or not-so-radical hosting of alternative options in their building), or 3) they're already just fine. In <A HREF="http://mahrabu.blogspot.com/2005/11/profile-of-unaffiliated-jew.html" REL="nofollow">"Profile of an 'Unaffiliated' Jew"</A>, I explain why most existing liberal synagogues don't meet my criteria for #3 (and though that article focuses on people in their 20s and 30s, a number of people over 40 have said that they identify with it), though I'd be happy to hear about exceptions.BZhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18242965196421853025noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12610610.post-59473014009028919172007-07-04T11:07:00.000-04:002007-07-04T11:07:00.000-04:00For those searching for a potential neighborhood, ...For those searching for a potential neighborhood, I'd also add (as someone else mentioned)the Philadelphia suburb of Melrose Park/Elkins Park. (These are adjacent neighborhoods in the township of Cheltenham.) This is a racially/ethnically integrated suburb (including African Americans, Koreans, Jews, whites, and people with other backgrounds) with a substantial Jewish population.<BR/><BR/> There are two large and one small Conservative congregations in the community,(one, Adath Jeshurun, with a traditional-egalitarian havurah), two Reform congregations, and an Orthodox congregration (Young Israel.) There is an eruv, an excellent kosher bakery (great whole wheat raisin challah) and a Jewish community campus including Gratz College (large Judaica library open to the public), Jewish day care, Solomon Schechter elementary and middle school, and community p/t Jewish high school. No Reconstructionist congregation yet, but it is only 2 miles or so to RRC. The public schools are good.<BR/><BR/>Melrose Park and Elkins Park are accessible to Mount Airy (Germantown Jewish Ctr)- 6 miles/20 minutes by car. The neighborhood has good public transit to Center City and the airport. While it is close to the city (we live 2 blocks outside of Philadelphia itself)it also has a smaller city feel, with shops in walking distance of a number of areas and CSAs (Community supported agriculture) that deliver to the neighborhood. Public/community services (police, your town council member, the neighborhood assn.) are readily accessible.<BR/><BR/>In terms of housing, there is a wide variety of types and ages, including rentals and condos. Three BR houses are available from under $200K to $350K -- I would say prices are cheaper than Mt. Airy and certainly cheaper than the Main Line -Western suburbs of Phila. So if people wanted to join existing groups or to start their own Jewish community, this could be<BR/>an area with potential.RTaba2https://www.blogger.com/profile/16115039649064681205noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12610610.post-8580443680672037822007-07-02T21:00:00.000-04:002007-07-02T21:00:00.000-04:00Progressive Jews should move to the Mt. Airy neigh...Progressive Jews should move to the Mt. Airy neighborhood of Philadelphia. Starter homes can be found for under $200,000. Come and visit and you'll see. Join the Dorshei Derekh minyan at Germantown Jewish Centre. This is what you're looking for.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12610610.post-12941841007491910772007-07-02T14:18:00.000-04:002007-07-02T14:18:00.000-04:00kids will always want to rebel against parents (wh...kids will always want to rebel against parents (which is good b/c it ensures that we humans continue improving things) and challenge what there parents had thought would be an ideal jewish upbringing. some of the havurot kids that really get into the jewish tradition aspect will probably end up being orthodox. and some kids who really get into the social justice aspect will probably end up being secular humanists who are culturally jewish but dont actively participate in a community.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12610610.post-37474206001039977732007-06-28T22:22:00.000-04:002007-06-28T22:22:00.000-04:00we're thinking Inwood or Flushing. Wanna come?we're thinking Inwood or Flushing. Wanna come?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12610610.post-73133367880306352062007-06-28T12:31:00.000-04:002007-06-28T12:31:00.000-04:00This gets even more complicated for folks who don'...<I>This gets even more complicated for folks who don't travel on shabbat/yuntiffs.</I><BR/><BR/>I travel on Shabbat and <B>still</B> think there are advantages to having a community in walking distance.BZhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18242965196421853025noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12610610.post-13883789314004477112007-06-28T10:47:00.000-04:002007-06-28T10:47:00.000-04:00This gets even more complicated for folks who don'...This gets even more complicated for folks who don't travel on shabbat/yuntiffs.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12610610.post-44409885890650979172007-06-28T04:14:00.000-04:002007-06-28T04:14:00.000-04:00Anonymous: I was envisioning some sort of graduate...Anonymous: I was envisioning some sort of graduated membership fees or a sort of school tax or something. There can also be a volunteer element, but only a smattering: professional teachers are important.<BR/>If *all* the members of a community participated in the funding of their schools, instead of those with kids in the schools, the costs per parent could be drastically cut.<BR/>Also - if the community has no rabbi, it can direct funds to education which would otherwise go into a rectory.DafKesherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08554696548964024016noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12610610.post-35573053838119844462007-06-27T23:55:00.000-04:002007-06-27T23:55:00.000-04:00dafkesher: Money is important. Jewish education sh...dafkesher: <I>Money is important. Jewish education should be free/cheap and Jewish education shouldn't be funded by philanthropists since then they think they control everything. and Jewish education shouldn't be on alternate sundays, either.</I><BR/><BR/>So Jewish education should have no source of income and be frequent. Are the teachers volunteers or are they paid? If they're paid where does the money come from?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12610610.post-34317739469958324542007-06-27T19:24:00.000-04:002007-06-27T19:24:00.000-04:00As Zach wrote, my generation faced precisely this ...As Zach wrote, my generation faced precisely this question and it seemed to come down to did you REQUIRE living in Manhattan for personal or professional reasons, or could you imagine elsewhere? We happily opted for elsewhere, and came to philadelphia. NW Philly's progressive Jewish community is in contrast to the rest of Philly's, which is normal conventional suburban. There is a newly vibrant Center City scene, now, which is bringing more sophisticated jews with it, young and empty nest.<BR/>Mt. Airy was colonized by 3 different populations, which have nicely cross-polinated: RRC, P'nai or, and the original Germantown Minyan/Havurah scene. That minyan subdivided right and left into Minyan Masorti and Minyan Dorshei Derekh, both of which are now intergenerational. (As in young couples and families continue to relocate here - it's a destination neighborhood for Jews-in-the-know.)<BR/>I think a new crowd would push the envelope, since we're all loyal to synagogues. GJC for example put up a successful fight against white/Jewish flight to the 'burbs.<BR/>On the other hand, we would all understand where a new crowd was coming from, and appreciate that it's part of the continued revitalization of Jewish life.<BR/>Check out Chestnut Hill - it is on the train line (R8) and easier to navigate carless. Mt. Airy also has PhillyCarShare.<BR/>Here's a slightly outdated but helpful website about Jewish Mt Airy:<BR/>http://www.kleinerprweb.com/jewishmtairyphila/Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12610610.post-30201189387071471692007-06-27T18:45:00.000-04:002007-06-27T18:45:00.000-04:00I have some experience with Ithaca - my mom's fami...I have some experience with Ithaca - my mom's family is from there, and I spent some time there as well. I don't really know what my "big picture" is on all the issues, but I have three things to say:<BR/>1. Staying put is important. It is important that communities remain - more or less, give or take - a constant. That they develop a minhag, and demeanor, and shared events and even a pinkas kehilla. It makes me sad to see communities that have to build themselves up from scratch every twenty years.<BR/>2. Money is important. Jewish education should be free/cheap and Jewish education shouldn't be funded by philanthropists since then they think they control everything. and Jewish education shouldn't be on alternate sundays, either.<BR/>3. Time is important. Jewish kids might have to give up soccer to "learn Jewish". There are only 24 hours in the day. It all depends on the families and their attitueds to the learning Jewish. There are also more families and more resources today they can use to do their jewish education at home. But there has to be something like a heder everyone goes to to get the "basics".<BR/>4. I'm ambivalent on the public education thing. I went to public school when I lived in Ithaca, and my mother and her siblings went to public school all their lives. But I wouldn't give up the education I got in the mamlachti dati school system, flawed as it is, any day.DafKesherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08554696548964024016noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12610610.post-68173296782240620622007-06-27T18:31:00.000-04:002007-06-27T18:31:00.000-04:00I just responded to some of these thoughts with a ...I just <A HREF="http://divinityisinthedetails.blogspot.com/2007/06/where-to-next.html" REL="nofollow">responded</A> to some of these thoughts with a couple of criteria that could help consider cities. Of the various obvious candidates, my personal experience is deepest in philadelphia, so i discussed some of it's positive characteristics including diversity of available jobs, plethora of universities, good parks, convenient location, and quality/affordable housing stock.ZThttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00389399563327644386noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12610610.post-44336483878262743752007-06-27T16:35:00.000-04:002007-06-27T16:35:00.000-04:00Another approach is to gather folks to live near a...Another approach is to gather folks to live near a place which is a natural draw, like Isabella Freedman. Not sure how expensive or not that area might be. <BR/><BR/>A word on college towns...I'm not sure if anyone grew up in a small college town, but I did (Chapel Hill) and it's notoriously bizarre... like you get extra points for being different and sophisticated and angst-ridden. I'm not sure I'd want to lay that on children (should I be blessed with them).Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11264724724279466454noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12610610.post-87054312084607332952007-06-27T15:59:00.000-04:002007-06-27T15:59:00.000-04:00My own personal ideas are smaller northeastern cit...<I>My own personal ideas are smaller northeastern cities like Ithaca and Northampton, college towns that also have some greenery.</I><BR/><BR/>I'm totally with you on this, but might we be able to compromise on somewhere a bit less chilly? I don't do so well with cold, depressing winters (and neither does BZ).RRhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05044207755047605659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12610610.post-65736304348361500612007-06-27T09:29:00.000-04:002007-06-27T09:29:00.000-04:00bythebay-I think BZ's idea behind put this out (co...bythebay-<BR/><BR/>I think BZ's idea behind put this out (correct me if I'm wrong, BZ) is to make this conversation on the internets, so you don't have to be in a major metro area to pitch in.<BR/><BR/>BZ-<BR/><BR/>I feel like a big part of where people look depends on shared values and personal needs. For example, I care about putting less carbon in the air, and don't want to see a possible great community do damage to the earth by moving someplace that has no public transit (or ease of walking/biking). Others might desire a place where hekshered products, particularly kosher meat, may be available.<BR/><BR/>My own personal ideas are smaller northeastern cities like Ithaca and Northampton, college towns that also have some greenery.Ruby Khttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14802936303861061783noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12610610.post-41469737974014410522007-06-27T01:00:00.000-04:002007-06-27T01:00:00.000-04:00I would really love to see this workshop include n...I would really love to see this workshop include not only people who currently live in cities but also folks in the same generation who already don't live in cities. I find the havurah / indie minyan movement so exciting yet totally alienating since I live in a town of 8,000 where there is only one synagogue nearby (just barely walking distance if it's not too cold or too hot out) and the others are 1/2 hour away and conventional in their outlooks. I feel silly saying this but: I feel left out! I want to know how to have Jewish community in general, and religious community specifically, while living in a small town. I want to meet people who want to create vibrant Jewish communities in rural areas (an American kibbutz, maybe?) and small towns and college towns and maybe even *ghasp!* suburbia.<BR/><BR/>Anyway I applaud you thinking long-term like this. I think when we're young and idealistic (which I hope I still am) it is sometimes hard to think in a long-term and realistic way and make plans for our communities to grow and change in response to its needs and population morphing and migrating. These are conversations that need to be had.<BR/><BR/>I look forward to meeting you at NHC!<BR/><BR/>http://hineini.wordpress.comByTheBayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06670549761665347741noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12610610.post-20256888571354837262007-06-26T22:01:00.000-04:002007-06-26T22:01:00.000-04:00And that geographic movement is based on so much m...<I>And that geographic movement is based on so much more than where we can find a Jewish community. It's based on job opportunities and other economic/political factors.</I><BR/><BR/>Yeah. I'm fortunate to have a job that I can do basically anywhere in the country, but I realize that not everyone does. Also, I'm assuming that we can't necessarily <B>find</B> a Jewish community anywhere, but we can start one.BZhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18242965196421853025noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12610610.post-2292326245215995172007-06-26T21:43:00.000-04:002007-06-26T21:43:00.000-04:00I love this workshop topic and regret that I won't...I love this workshop topic and regret that I won't be at the 'tute this year...I was last year.<BR/><BR/>I currently live in a community where the young Jewish population is not vibrant or active. Although we're beginning to work on some social solutions (which is a beginning), the grad student population is so transient that nobody wants to make that sort of committment. <BR/><BR/>I grew up in small midwestern communities where it was lonely in public school. But, the small congregations were amazing, supportive, became a huge part of my family's life, and helped form my Jewish identity in important ways. <BR/><BR/>I don't have an answer, but my unformed thoughts include: well, our generation as it moves need to work with the institutions in place to change them to meet our generation's needs. And that geographic movement is based on so much more than where we can find a Jewish community. It's based on job opportunities and other economic/political factors. <BR/><BR/>I hope that you post some of the "conclusions" or brainstorms that the workshop participants develop.Jenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04931321751231353124noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12610610.post-27781390855308069242007-06-26T21:40:00.000-04:002007-06-26T21:40:00.000-04:00You said about past experiences:During college, we...You said about past experiences:<BR/><I>During college, we gained experience running Jewish communities that were relatively tabulae rasae and experimenting with crazy ideas in a laboratory setting, so that when we were set loose on the real world, we had an idea of what we wanted and how to make it happen.</I><BR/><BR/>And about future communities:<BR/><I>For one thing, they'd probably have to be more self-contained -- "minyan-hopping" will be less feasible if we have merely a critical mass and not a SUPERcritical mass</I><BR/><BR/>The first step is making these current communities self contained. We need to experiment with what a self contained community looks like now when its not necessary, so we know what it needs to look like later when it is.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com