tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12610610.post2030917686035700027..comments2023-12-27T03:40:39.548-05:00Comments on Mah Rabu מה רבו: Taxonomy of Jewish pluralism revisitedBZhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18242965196421853025noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12610610.post-49476956966840956372010-05-17T13:27:35.264-04:002010-05-17T13:27:35.264-04:00This is a constant issue for me, since I'm act...This is a constant issue for me, since I'm active in a Friday-night minyan and my mother isn't Jewish. For us, the person leading ma'ariv is responsible for the minyan count, and generally that person knows my deal and can make their own decision on it just like they have general free reign on the service in general (such as deciding whether to include the matriarchs or not). Obviously, not a solution that's going to work for every community.<br /><br />It's pretty not satisfactory to just not ask, not tell. This is a message that you're only welcome in a community if you pretend to be someone else. I'd much rather not count in the minyan than feel like I can't talk about my mother. I've had experiences where I'll bring up my status (usually when we're waiting for a 10th) and everyone will tell me they would prefer I kept quiet. But that's their problem, not mine-- if you think "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" is the way to go, then I think it's time to question what your "who is a Jew" standards are and what your reasons are, and whether you should adopt different standards you can take more seriously.Amandanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12610610.post-43824714821028390412010-04-30T14:19:25.060-04:002010-04-30T14:19:25.060-04:00OJ-
Conservative minyanim at least have a definiti...OJ-<br />Conservative minyanim at least have a definition of "halakhically Jewish". Independent minyanim (in the state of nature) don't.BZhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18242965196421853025noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12610610.post-65448353462446515982010-04-30T13:20:07.850-04:002010-04-30T13:20:07.850-04:00There're people in our conservative minyan tha...There're people in our conservative minyan that are not halakhicaly Jewish, but I don't know who knows, and if we should do anything about it, as it's kind of sensitive..OJhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00211341093491536772noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12610610.post-8039501816125405672010-04-29T02:48:39.251-04:002010-04-29T02:48:39.251-04:00Dan M: I think the nationality line was removed ea...Dan M: I think the nationality line was removed earlier. Either that, or you're not referring to te`udot zehut. Mine was issued February 2003, and my nationality is eight asterisks.JXGnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12610610.post-77491124145691528082010-04-28T10:26:32.990-04:002010-04-28T10:26:32.990-04:00Interesting comment ...
No one ever asked me to ...Interesting comment ...<br /> <br />No one ever asked me to "represent" about being a Jew, but then again, I look the part.<br /><br />The question of "disputed status" within the Jewish community, like the question of the status of the children of foreign workers born in Israel, cannot and should not so easily be set aside in the pursuit of pluralism.<br /><br />A cautionary tale: In 2005, Israel's Supreme Court instructed Shas MK and Minister of the Interior Eli Yishai to register Jews converted Reform (which clearly clarifies status, does it not?) as "Jews" on their Teudot Zehut ... To prevent this "shonda" from happening, Yishai scrapped the ethnicity category altogether. <br /><br />Is this pluralism's dealbreaker?Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05110470005558042155noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12610610.post-54905456285291926232010-04-28T08:56:49.374-04:002010-04-28T08:56:49.374-04:00That's ok in the short term, and is the de fac...That's ok in the short term, and is the de facto practice in most communities (including those that do have a defined standard of "who is a Jew") - I've never been asked which of my parents were Jewish, whether I converted, etc. (though I acknowledge that this may be <a href="http://garretandstudio.wordpress.com/2009/02/06/ashkenazi-privilege-checklist/" rel="nofollow">white privilege</a> in some cases). But in the long term, this amounts to "Don't Ask Don't Tell", and means that people whose Jewish status may be disputed have to remain in the closet about their personal history. And this provides no solution to what to do if someone is <b>known</b> by others in the community to have a disputed status. (In communities with a defined standard, the next step is at least well-defined, if unpleasant.) The <a href="http://mahrabu.blogspot.com/2006/11/hilchot-pluralism-part-v-quorum-call.html" rel="nofollow">"minyan check"</a> system could in theory address the question of how to count a minyan (albeit at potential great embarrassment to such an individual), but I don't see a pluralistic solution to what roles this person can take on in the community.BZhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18242965196421853025noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12610610.post-45531309973201123482010-04-28T08:56:28.221-04:002010-04-28T08:56:28.221-04:00Until you start getting into question of, "do...Until you start getting into question of, "do we have a minyan", "who can get an aliya", "who can lead", etc... In fact I feel like almost every minyan needs to have a position on who is a Jew. They may not explicitly endorse a specific movements answer, but in practice they may follow the same standards as a specific movement.Avinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12610610.post-83153389498596699532010-04-28T03:04:03.477-04:002010-04-28T03:04:03.477-04:00In the case of "who is a Jew," is it not...In the case of "who is a Jew," is it not satisfactory to say that someone who presents his/herself to the community as a Jew is accepted as such, in a "we're not gonna ask specifics" kind of way?David A.M. Wilenskyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18033376629000540153noreply@blogger.com