tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12610610.post113997460593008424..comments2023-12-27T03:40:39.548-05:00Comments on Mah Rabu מה רבו: Burn My Siddur AwardBZhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18242965196421853025noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12610610.post-1141066872830465572006-02-27T14:01:00.000-05:002006-02-27T14:01:00.000-05:00Ben, in your ongoing analysis of pluralism you MUS...Ben, in your ongoing analysis of pluralism you MUST read Jonathan Sacks's <A HREF="http://www.littman.co.uk/cat/sacks.html" REL="nofollow">"One People?"</A> While he wants to be a pluralist, he outlines why orthodoxy cannot be pluralist. Its a really well written look at some of the issues involved. check it out!<BR/><BR/>PS If BT cannot handle the competition, it just shows how worried they are about their own position.Chorus of Apeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12408481444277244082noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12610610.post-1140376414902971632006-02-19T14:13:00.000-05:002006-02-19T14:13:00.000-05:00Hey. I heard about your post on Friday afternoon a...Hey. I heard about your post on Friday afternoon as I was on my way to Jews in the Woods from our mutual friend Desh, and since then had been dying to get online to actually read what happened.<BR/><BR/>I understand both sides. If I were running the blog, I personally wouldn't have deleted it [I never even saw your post!] but I'm of a more liberal persuasion.<BR/><BR/>What it comes down to is that there are 2 types of Orthodox Jews- the kind that want all Jews to become Orthodox and the kind that accept that Orthodoxy isn't for everyone, and people have valid reasons not to become Orthodox. I fall in the latter category now [I didn't always] but most people on Beyond BT I would say fall into the former, for whatever reason.<BR/><BR/>As such, they feel that it is their duty to prevent other Jews from "being led astray." While I don't think that it is halachically ok to play guitar on Shabbat, and thus would never daven at a place like Kol Zimrah, I certainly don't have a problem with telling someone else about a shul like that. I don't like taking away a person's right to choose. Maybe I am still Reform at heart in that respect.<BR/><BR/>Of course, I'm not very representative of Orthodox Judaism. I see myself questioning what I thought were base assumptions, especially concerning women's roles. I don't fit into any Orthodox community, whether it's Modern or Charedi. I think I've become "halachically observant trans-denominational." Which makes me wonder whether or not I should still even be a contributor to Beyond BT, a site meant to help people become <I>Orthodox</I>.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12610610.post-1140046988029936992006-02-15T18:43:00.000-05:002006-02-15T18:43:00.000-05:00I also want to add that I really enjoyed this post...I also want to add that I really enjoyed this post as well. Thanks, BZ!Abacaxi Mamaohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06604184268628243496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12610610.post-1140026381457580062006-02-15T12:59:00.000-05:002006-02-15T12:59:00.000-05:00I really enjoyed this post Ben! Thank you!I really enjoyed this post Ben! Thank you!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12610610.post-1140023016541214612006-02-15T12:03:00.000-05:002006-02-15T12:03:00.000-05:00BZ, I know you probably disagree, but Mark's expla...BZ, I know you probably disagree, but Mark's explanation that when "we feel the commentor [sic] is inviting others to engage in non-halachic practices, we will delete the comment" actually makes some amount of sense to me. It is clearly because they see KZ as a threat, which is testimony to your efficacy in creating a warm, spiritual, and authentic Jewish community. But I don't think it's unreasonable for someone to delete a comment that they feel threatens their way of life or their way of practicing religion. I would <I>personally</I> rather engage in <B>dialogue</B> about it than delete it, but they don't see their blog as the forum for that kind of dialogue, and I respect that. It would probably get very heated and distract them from their mission, which appears to be to provide a (safe) place for BTs who have chosen Orthodoxy to talk about religion.<BR/><BR/>I think comparing deleting a comment on a blog to burning a siddur is unreasonable and unnecessarily inflammatory, not least because of this famous quote:<BR/>"Where they have burned books, they will end in burning human beings." —Heinrich Heine, from his play Almansor (1821)Abacaxi Mamaohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06604184268628243496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12610610.post-1140019740331815482006-02-15T11:09:00.000-05:002006-02-15T11:09:00.000-05:00You made a few assumptions about our thoughts and ...You made a few assumptions about our thoughts and policies at <A HREF="http://www.beyondbt.com" REL="nofollow">Beyond Teshuva</A> and I thought it would be helpful to clarify where we are actually holding. Firstly, we sent the email hoping that you might understand our position and accept our apologies for an action which we don't like to do.<BR/><BR/>As you correctly pointed out, we allow commentors and contributors to discuss non-halachic experiences they have had. In fact we have taken a lot of heat for providing such an open forum discussing the diversity of the Orthodox experience. When we feel the commentor is inviting others to engage in non-halachic practices, we will delete the comment.<BR/><BR/>Many BTs consider themselves progressive in that we share your values of understanding, empathy amd inclusion and we pray that we can collectively use those values to bring people closer to G-d and make the world a better place.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12610610.post-1140017480183932822006-02-15T10:31:00.000-05:002006-02-15T10:31:00.000-05:00Egalitarianism (which isn't being discussed here, ...Egalitarianism (which isn't being discussed here, but is another difference between spirited services at KZ and, say, the Carlebach Shul) is certainly a progressive Jewish value. I wouldn't say that the use of musical instruments is itself a value, but I think a larger conception of Shabbat (into which musical instruments fit as one piece) is a value for many people.BZhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18242965196421853025noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12610610.post-1140016771049650382006-02-15T10:19:00.000-05:002006-02-15T10:19:00.000-05:00Would you actually describe the use of musical ins...Would you actually describe the use of musical instruments on Shabbos as a "progressive Jewish <I>value</I>"?Steg (dos iz nit der šteg)https://www.blogger.com/profile/07694556690190505030noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12610610.post-1140014516177143962006-02-15T09:41:00.000-05:002006-02-15T09:41:00.000-05:00I actually just learned about the historic siddur-...I actually just learned about the historic siddur-burning last week, when a Reconstructionist rabbinic student came to speak at my Reform shul. What a story...!<BR/><BR/>Anyway, I enjoyed this post and the questions you've raised in it. You've expressed yourself clearly and cogently, without being unduly negative about Beyond Teshuva (which I think is an interesting and worthwhile blog, though I'm totally willing to accept your analysis of what's problematic about their comment policy). And I think you're right about why KZ services are troubling for them in a way that reading about organ music at a Reform temple isn't; it breaks the binaristic paradigm.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12610610.post-1140009412874897892006-02-15T08:16:00.000-05:002006-02-15T08:16:00.000-05:00just wanted to point out for your readers that "un...just wanted to point out for your readers that "union of orthodox rabbis of the US and canada" is a right-fringe group with no affiliation to the well-known "orthodox union". UoORotUSaC is called in hebrew "agudat harabanim" but not affiliated with the well-know haredi organzation Agudat Yisrael, either.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com